BMP-1 vs. Everything Else Controversy

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MILINTarctrooper
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BMP-1 vs. Everything Else Controversy

Postby MILINTarctrooper » Sat 19 Dec 2015 03:12

Lately I have been keeping some BMP-1 in my decks and throwing them around like candy.

And then I started to notice something rather disturbing.

I know that the BMP-1 has HEAT trait on the Grom. But why on earth are these things killing/damaging even mediums and heavies so much more than 135pt T-72S!!!!!

I can factor out rate of fire. Or even block usage.
The thing I am concerned about is how a T-72S/S1 will get a shot on an Abrams or other medium to superheavy and only take 1 block off, but then the reprisal is a monsterous 50-60% health. Even with the Svir or any tank ATGM or vehicle ATGM...for whatever reason...they don't do squat in damage. But then we pull out our unicorns and then there is breathing space...for however long those unicorns are alive.

But then the BMP-1 will engage the same said targets and rapidly whittle their health and morale down. But my T-72s can not damage the target even with superior AP and range to BMP-1...and generally 3x the amount of shots to start morale affects. And that 1 block of health....no morale damage. Instant Vape Reprisal.

What is the hidden stat that affects this? Because superior ATGM should be doing more damage to tanks...if they connect...but that is not happening. But then with RPG you get more damage. Makes no sense.

And then add BMP-1 and it really starts to become controversial.

I am not bashing and asking for BMP-1 to be returned to pre-patch...I am just asking, by using them as a yard stick, why are the other "superior" in AP/Range units...not doing the same thing?
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Re: BMP-1 vs. Everything Else Controversy

Postby Adolith » Sat 19 Dec 2015 03:16

Read up on AP/HEAT game mechanics, especially the damage formulas.

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Re: BMP-1 vs. Everything Else Controversy

Postby Mitchverr » Sat 19 Dec 2015 03:18

HEAT always does a min damage of 1.

Thats why, but it also NEVER goes up either, unlike AP which increases as you get close.
Last edited by Mitchverr on Sat 19 Dec 2015 03:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BMP-1 vs. Everything Else Controversy

Postby LTSarcasm » Sat 19 Dec 2015 03:18

Welcome to the land of 10 point HEAT guns.... something I am really surprised they brought back to wargame, as it was a universally reviled cancer. The "Hidden stat" is that a HEAT weapon always does at least one damage per hit, and as a gun, the Grom doesn't suffer from multiple hitrolls like ATGMs. 10 Grom hits kills anything, no matter what.

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Re: BMP-1 vs. Everything Else Controversy

Postby MILINTarctrooper » Sat 19 Dec 2015 03:24

Mitchverr wrote:HEAT always does a min damage of 1.

Thats why, but it also NEVER goes up either, unlike AP which increases as you get close.

So no wonder they were creaming M1A1 with shells.

But then the question is...Mitchverr can you corroborate, like the accuracy stats in game are not the same as in armory...is the AP values off? So instead of T-72S1....22AP...it might be lower in game? Instead of being locked at Max Range?

But then how does one explain the massive AP advantage Bluefor has against Redfor. I try to get into that sweet spot for the AP scaling, but my units are getting creamed before they even enter 2100 out of their 2275m range. And then all T-72...seem to shoot left or right of targets especially the lower tier ones.
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Re: BMP-1 vs. Everything Else Controversy

Postby MILINTarctrooper » Sat 19 Dec 2015 03:25

LTSarcasm wrote:Welcome to the land of 10 point HEAT guns.... something I am really surprised they brought back to wargame, as it was a universally reviled cancer. The "Hidden stat" is that a HEAT weapon always does at least one damage per hit, and as a gun, the Grom doesn't suffer from multiple hitrolls like ATGMs. 10 Grom hits kills anything, no matter what.

All except the SPG-9 family. They are not even worth that bracket. Even though they have the 1750m range.
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Re: BMP-1 vs. Everything Else Controversy

Postby Fade2Gray » Sat 19 Dec 2015 03:29

I've had a few people try to get frisky with BMP 1s.

Ultimately they are still brittle platforms that die to autocannons and tanks very easily.

They can be a bit of a shock, as it is for MLIN and others like him with a poor understanding of the game. Ultimately? They are still cannon fodder units that can do a bit of ambush work.

I don't see the issue personally.

To hear of M1A1s getting "creamed" by Groms makes me assume someone is pubstomping in 10v10s.

Replays or GTFO.
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Re: BMP-1 vs. Everything Else Controversy

Postby CornProducts » Sat 19 Dec 2015 03:31

MILINTarctrooper wrote:is the AP values off? So instead of T-72S1....22AP...it might be lower in game? Instead of being locked at Max Range?



Well, the T-72S's and S1 do 20 AP with their cannon, which is KE, and 22 AP with the Svir, which is HEAT. So if you are expecting the punch of an Svir every time, you will be dissapointed. However with the KE cannon you can expect to do much more damage, and receive much more damage, at closer ranges to enemy tanks.
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Re: BMP-1 vs. Everything Else Controversy

Postby nande » Sat 19 Dec 2015 03:34

with that range and rof those 10 hits sure are hard to achieve.

But they're a decent buy now, if only because the other east german transport options are so bad

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Re: BMP-1 vs. Everything Else Controversy

Postby MILINTarctrooper » Sat 19 Dec 2015 03:40

Fade2Gray wrote:I've had a few people try to get frisky with BMP 1s.

Ultimately they are still brittle platforms that die to autocannons and tanks very easily.

They can be a bit of a shock, as it is for MLIN and others like him with a poor understanding of the game. Ultimately? They are still cannon fodder units that can do a bit of ambush work.

I don't see the issue personally.

To hear of M1A1s getting "creamed" by Groms makes me assume someone is pubstomping in 10v10s.

Replays or GTFO.


Hence why I am arguing against "stealth" AC vehicles...they are abused too much.
Last edited by MILINTarctrooper on Sat 19 Dec 2015 03:57, edited 1 time in total.
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