Recon units and scouting

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AndreB
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Recon units and scouting

Postby AndreB » Wed 23 Mar 2016 04:29

Theres a lack of cheap scouting in early game and units that have extended vision.

Yes Cartel has the K-max for 800 and the other factions can get an harvestor for scouting, but as the current economy works, its a bit too expensive to do so early game.

Later on US and Chimera have the ninja and a little bird for vision and propper scouting, but it still requires a specific building.

I suggest adding back the old recon units as unarmed vehicles.

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Re: Recon units and scouting

Postby dotDash » Wed 23 Mar 2016 04:35

+1

This would also help in punishing early greed. Lets say I open with a harassment option of an early Humvee behind 2 early refs and my opponent opened greedy 3 ref. My build is only a single Humvee or two because I want to be able to get a fast 3rd but keep presence on the map.

Once the Humvee arrives I get the information that he went really greedy and I should punish it, but it's already too late because it takes so long to get a Humvee across the map. To punish it I would probably need to go nonstop production of Humvees right when the vehicle bay finished.

With re-introducing unarmed scouts you can get the information in time and adapt much better. Giving way more aggressive options, reducing turtle and making the game more enjoyable. You also get something to do early game instead of eating a pretzel while waiting for money for your 2nd ref or first vehicle bay.


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dotDash

admiralzeech
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Re: Recon units and scouting

Postby admiralzeech » Wed 23 Mar 2016 04:36

I would like this too.

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Spector
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Re: Recon units and scouting

Postby Spector » Wed 23 Mar 2016 08:34

I agree with scouting units but NOT with free scouting units.

If a player wants to take a monetary risk of investing into a scout and the dice roll+personal skill of seeing what he needs to see where the enemy player has something to be seen he should be allowed to do so.

If both players are given a free scout the game is then a dice roll but with no investment. So it then boils down to pure luck of literally walking in the dark hoping you don't stub your toe. Yes, recon units have more sight range then most starting units have attack range but hiding behind building is easy and a scout can be cut off on larger maps.

Also, US and Chimera vs Cartel previous scouts where blatantly not balanced if we disarm them all.
"All your bases are belong to us", Zero Wing, 1991.

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Araton
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Re: Recon units and scouting

Postby Araton » Wed 23 Mar 2016 10:38

Yes true to that. The other reason we desperately need a cheap scout with detection is because US just can't get rid of the surveying Ninja above their base until they hit Defcon 2 and build a Phalanx or get a super early Blazer out.

admiralzeech
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Re: Recon units and scouting

Postby admiralzeech » Wed 23 Mar 2016 10:42

Yes, I'm thinking have the scouts be build able from HQ, not free.

The costs can be balanced based on effectiveness:
Chimera/US = cheap
Cartel = medium cost

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Re: Recon units and scouting

Postby torinus » Wed 23 Mar 2016 10:55

admiralzeech wrote:Yes, I'm thinking have the scouts be build able from HQ, not free.

The costs can be balanced based on effectiveness:
Chimera/US = cheap
Cartel = medium cost

I agree, give us back unarmed scouts that are not expensive and are built from HQ.

But I propose a different price range.
USA = fast and cheap
Cartel = fast, medium cost and can fly
Chimera = medium speed, medium cost but can carry 1 or 2 infantry (this would solve the problem of Chimera faction lacking an early transport)

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Spector
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Re: Recon units and scouting

Postby Spector » Wed 23 Mar 2016 10:58

How could the cost and speed alone balance out the Cartels scout flying? Especially on maps with the base on hills with 2-3 roads leading in. A US and Chimera scouts have only 3 potential ways of getting in, Cartels scout has INFINITE ways of getting in.

And on top of that many more units can hit the US and Chimera scouts then the Cartel scout.

It has to be a land vehicles for the Cartel as well. Any other way and it's broken. Except all to be flying.
"All your bases are belong to us", Zero Wing, 1991.

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Re: Recon units and scouting

Postby torinus » Wed 23 Mar 2016 11:05

Spector wrote:How could the cost and speed alone balance out the Cartels scout flying? Especially on maps with the base on hills with 2-3 roads leading in. A US and Chimera scouts have only 3 potential ways of getting in, Cartels scout has INFINITE ways of getting in.

And on top of that many more units can hit the US and Chimera scouts then the Cartel scout.

It has to be a land vehicles for the Cartel as well. Any other way and it's broken. Except all to be flying.

Land vehicles would need a new model so less chance that gets implemented. If they use 3 existing ones, they just need to remove their firing capability and change their price.
In base AoA cartel scout had also less HP and died fast to one aa unit.

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Gnougnou
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Re: Recon units and scouting

Postby Gnougnou » Wed 23 Mar 2016 14:26

+1 for recon units.

Yes there is no ressources to scout anymore, but enemies are still here, and being able to quickly scout them is a must have. I have no clue why they deleted scout units while they were extremely useful even for non-ressource task. Maybe they could be armed with an upgrade, but at least give us unarmed cheap scouts ! (and not 1600$ like builders !!!).

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