Infantry weapons rebalance.

User avatar
FoxZz
Chief Warrant Officer
Posts: 614
Joined: Thu 27 Mar 2014 19:16
Contact:

Infantry weapons rebalance.

Postby FoxZz » Mon 6 Feb 2017 01:21

The recent MG rebalance was greatly welcomed, but sadly, it didn't solved all the problems, as many exceptions were left, and on top of that, new primary weapon classes were created. As such, Infantry has been made harder to balanced. I think we should come back to a more simplistic approach of infantry stats.

The small arms should be divided into 3 categories of primary weapons and secondary weapons. The differance between the categories is made by the cartridge they fire, in some cases barrel length/weight, and in addition, for the MGs, their feeding system. The type of cartridges are : Full cartridge (7.62 NATO, 7.62x54R) Intermediate cartridge ( 7.56x39, 5.56 NATO, 5.45, 4.73) Pistol cartridge (9mmPB). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifle_cartridge


Primary weapons categories :


- Battle Rifle : All the full cartridge firing weapons : G3, FAL, MAS-49, C1A1, etc

- Assault Rifle : All the intermediate cartrdige firing weapons : M16, AK47, AK74, FAMAS, M4, etc

- Submachine Gun : All the pistol cartridge firing weapons as well as very short barrel intermediate cartridge firing weapons : AK74U, MP5, MAT49, MP40, etc

Secondary weapons categories :

- General Purpose Machine Guns : All the band fed weapons that fire full power cartridge : M240/FNMAG, MG3, PKM, M60, AA52/NF1, NKvs59, MG42, etc

- Light Machine Guns : All the band fed weapons that fire intermediate cartridge with some short/light full power cartridge wepons : Minimi, K3LMG, RPD, KK62, M60 Shorty, etc

- Small Machine Guns : All the mag fed weapons that fire intermediate cartridges : Bren, RPK74, L86LMG, GalilARM, Falo, LMG944, ColtLMG, Type 73, Type 81, C2A1, etc


The cartridge will set the supression value. 30 for pistol cartidge, 40 for intermediate and 50 for full. The cartidge being fired from a MG will add 5 supression.
The exceptions being when the weapon fire a cartridge that doesn't belong to its natural category. For example, M60 shorty won't have 50 supression but 40 and AK-74U won't have 40 but 30.

The primary weapons stats can stay the same as the one we have now for BR, AR and SMG, there is no more Super Laser Carabine or Bulbup stuff. (G11 goes in AR category, AK74U goes in SMG, HKG3KA4 goes in BR, etc). Only 3 categories, no exception.

The secondary weapons stats are standardized around 3 models :

- GMPG : 55 supression, [STAT] for line inf, 20% base acc (line inf) : long bursts, long reload, high Rof, 825m range
- LMG : 45 supression, 10% base stabs (line inf), 25% base acc (line inf) medium burst, long reload, high RoF, 770m range
- sMG : 45 supression, 15% base stabs (line inf), 30% base acc (line inf) short burst, short reload, medium RoF 770m range

Training level makes reloading faster and the fire more accurate, very much like currently :

Each traing level adds and +10% stabs and +15% acc and a faster reload speed.

To illustrate (without the rate of fire).

Line MG3 : [STAT], 20% acc; 825m range, 55 supression
Shock MG3 : [CQC], 10% stabs, 35% acc, 825m range, 55 supression
Elite MG3 : [CQC], 20% stabs, 50% acc, 825m range, 55 supression

Line Minimi : 10% stabs, 25% acc; 770m range, 45 supression
Shock Minimi : [CQC], 20% stabs, 40% acc; 770m range, 45 supression
Elite Minimi : [CQC], 30% stabs, 55% acc; 770m range, 45 supression

Line RPK74 : 15% stabs, 30% acc; 770m range, 45 supression
Shock RPK74 : [CQC], 25% stabs, 45% acc; 770m range, 45 supression
Elite RPK74 : [CQC], 35% stabs, 60% acc; 770m range, 45 supression


So in the end, the only criterias left to price infantry would be its AT launcher category, its training level , and number in the squad. Since all the rest would be equal (each type of armement has pros and cons here)

Category 1 launchers that warrants a +5 to the base price : LAW80, APILAS, RPG29, PzF3, Eryx, CG M3, RPG7VR, AT4, Type-69-III, PF-89, B300/SMAW
Category 2 launchers that don't warrant a price nerf : All the rest
In each cat, the shittiest RPGs could get some small buff (on acc for example).

All this should make infantry more streamlined and more balanced/easy to balance overall.

User avatar
QUAD
Colonel
Posts: 2766
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013 21:17
Contact:

Re: Infantry weapons rebalance.

Postby QUAD » Mon 6 Feb 2017 04:59

Tie DPS to primary and suppression to MG. SAWs inflict slight DPS and ARs slightly suppress.

Splitting Suppression and DPS to two weapons just muddles stats when you can get clearer results.
Mobile Units Operational :!:

R3d Sh4mbala
Sergeant Major
Posts: 291
Joined: Thu 12 May 2016 06:17
Contact:

Re: Infantry weapons rebalance.

Postby R3d Sh4mbala » Mon 6 Feb 2017 06:37

QUAD wrote:Tie DPS to primary and suppression to MG. SAWs inflict slight DPS and ARs slightly suppress.

Splitting Suppression and DPS to two weapons just muddles stats when you can get clearer results.

Oddly enought this is a vehicle problem too.

KVPT vs. DSHK/NVST.

KVPT is a freaking 14.5mm MG. But does less suppress than the 12.7mm DSHK/NVST. Its funny to watch cheap DSHK/NVST equipped vehicles just ream and stun lock infantry and other light vehicles into submission. :shock:

User avatar
MARDER
Command Sergeant Major
Posts: 344
Joined: Fri 20 Jul 2012 00:42
Contact:

Re: Infantry weapons rebalance.

Postby MARDER » Mon 6 Feb 2017 20:42

R3d Sh4mbala wrote:
QUAD wrote:Tie DPS to primary and suppression to MG. SAWs inflict slight DPS and ARs slightly suppress.

Splitting Suppression and DPS to two weapons just muddles stats when you can get clearer results.

Oddly enought this is a vehicle problem too.

KVPT vs. DSHK/NVST.

KVPT is a freaking 14.5mm MG. But does less suppress than the 12.7mm DSHK/NVST. Its funny to watch cheap DSHK/NVST equipped vehicles just ream and stun lock infantry and other light vehicles into submission. :shock:



Suppression should work by the ammounts of bullets that come your way and not by sice if the bullet.

RPM+Acc+(of moving (stab))=Suppression

Not the sice of the bullet.

Witch reminds me that the RPM of the MG3´s in game is totally wrong, its 1000-1300 rpm

User avatar
Desty
Warrant Officer
Posts: 452
Joined: Wed 23 Jul 2014 16:22
Location: Austria
Contact:

Re: Infantry weapons rebalance.

Postby Desty » Mon 6 Feb 2017 20:59

MARDER wrote:Witch reminds me that the RPM of the MG3´s in game is totally wrong, its 1000-1300 rpm


Like every MG ingame.
RoF ingame is the ammo consumption and since even the MG3 has to reload at some point you won't get 1300 rounds out of it in a full minute of firing,,,
Image

GARGEAN
Brigadier
Posts: 3496
Joined: Wed 9 Apr 2014 14:19
Contact:

Re: Infantry weapons rebalance.

Postby GARGEAN » Mon 6 Feb 2017 21:42

MARDER wrote:Suppression should work by the ammounts of bullets that come your way and not by sice if the bullet.

RPM+Acc+(of moving (stab))=Suppression

Not the sice of the bullet.

Witch reminds me that the RPM of the MG3´s in game is totally wrong, its 1000-1300 rpm

Lol. Look at MDZ bullet for KPVT. And imagine what will happen with morale of soldier, if one of his mates will be ripped-off with that thing.
And no to "muh teutonic chainsaw". Want real MG3 RoF? Great. Take it with longer reloadings with barrel change, no stabs at all and meh accuracy.

User avatar
MARDER
Command Sergeant Major
Posts: 344
Joined: Fri 20 Jul 2012 00:42
Contact:

Re: Infantry weapons rebalance.

Postby MARDER » Mon 6 Feb 2017 22:20

GARGEAN wrote:
MARDER wrote:Suppression should work by the ammounts of bullets that come your way and not by sice if the bullet.

RPM+Acc+(of moving (stab))=Suppression

Not the sice of the bullet.

Witch reminds me that the RPM of the MG3´s in game is totally wrong, its 1000-1300 rpm

Lol. Look at MDZ bullet for KPVT. And imagine what will happen with morale of soldier, if one of his mates will be ripped-off with that thing.
And no to "muh teutonic chainsaw". Want real MG3 RoF? Great. Take it with longer reloadings with barrel change, no stabs at all and meh accuracy.


The same that happens when you get hit by 7.62. But with hire rof you wont stand up and shift positions.
Still better acc by inf then what you get with KPV and dyska. Acc is superb when stationary. You should maybe lift mr.skeleton then you hit what you aim at. Even better on a Lafette and tripod. Adn best thing you can carry it wround while your dyskas and kpvs are only vehicle mounted.

GARGEAN
Brigadier
Posts: 3496
Joined: Wed 9 Apr 2014 14:19
Contact:

Re: Infantry weapons rebalance.

Postby GARGEAN » Mon 6 Feb 2017 23:02

MARDER wrote:The same that happens when you get hit by 7.62.

Loool.
Image
Can 7,62mm do this?

User avatar
Killertomato
More than 10 000 messages. Soldier you are the leader of all armies!
Posts: 13730
Joined: Mon 9 Jul 2012 02:46
Contact:

Re: Infantry weapons rebalance.

Postby Killertomato » Mon 6 Feb 2017 23:23

KPVT is more of a light cannon than an MG. Their relative positions reflect the internal consistency problems most low AP/low AV units have these days.
orcbuster wrote:USSR gets prototype marsupials, why would you need moose when you got stuff with kickers like that AND transport capability? And I'm not even gonna START on the french Marsupilami, I don't even think thats a real animal! Why no trolls for Norway?

User avatar
Desty
Warrant Officer
Posts: 452
Joined: Wed 23 Jul 2014 16:22
Location: Austria
Contact:

Re: Infantry weapons rebalance.

Postby Desty » Mon 6 Feb 2017 23:27

MARDER wrote:The same that happens when you get hit by 7.62.


So weapons that can go through walls, trees and even armor should suppress as good as some 7.62 MGs ? :lol:
Germans and their equipment...
Image

Return to “Wargame : Red Dragon”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot] and 28 guests